Автор Тема: Електролизер на Stanley Mayer  (Прочетена 187135 пъти)

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Електролизер на Stanley Mayer
« -: Декември 26, 2007, 11:21:12 am »
Stanley Mayer е човекът, успял през 90-те да реализира супер ефективно разлагане на водата и е направил автомобил, изцяло работещ с вода.

Ползвал е пакет импулси, предизвикващи стъпково енергизиране и разпадане на водата чрез резонанс (капацитета на плочите на водната клетка + външна индуктивност) и лазерно енергийно стимулиране на водната молекула, намаляващо енергията на връзката й.

Схеми, теория, чертежи:
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/concept.html - Обяснение на физиката на процеса на разделяне на водната молекула
Нашият FTP сървър с подбрани файлове
http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/stanspatentcircuit.pdf - Патента му в оригинален вид
http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/Stan_Meyer_Full_Data.pdf - Комплексен документ, включващ всички известни негови схеми и теория
http://waterpoweredcar.com/stan.html  - Тук са събрани всички PDF-и, включително горните два
http://waterpoweredcar.com/stansgifs.html - Допълнителни схеми и чертеж на смесителните устройства

Видео:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-WO-sorNkA - Обясняват основните принципи на електролизера на Meyer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9XrLOudwRw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdbaFIFcwNw&feature=related - Мощна ефективна електролиза
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOGAkRkCWfA&feature=related - Stanley Meyer оригинално видео
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKmB6-wZSh8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIgOn1kRw5s&feature=related - Stanley Meyer кара бъгито си на вода

Някои неща от форумите:
http://waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=541

« Последна редакция: Април 03, 2011, 11:57:07 pm от altium »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #1 -: Декември 26, 2007, 11:25:53 am »
Репликация на потребител Ravi:

stevie1001
Цитат
Today I receive a picture from Ravi's bifilair coil.
Perhaps this helps you further.
See how the wires of the bifilair coil are changed!

Цитат
The Water Fuel Cell Basics.

let’s look at Stan’s main drawing at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Water_fuel_cell_circuit.png, here we have a power supply, a transformer witch is not essential but dose help, so we wont go into that now, a frequency generator, a diode, two bifilar wound chokes, and a capacitor.

We now know that 2Ampers and 5Volts input, that’s 10 watt’s, is all we need. We can get far more then that from most power supplies.

The frequency generator needs to produce a square wave form, those square wave pulses also need to be gated so that the voltage fields don’t rise to such a level that they arch.

The pulses need to match the resonant frequency of the inductor and capacitor.

Ok,

The transformer is an unnecessary luxury and is for a more advanced model of the water fuel cell; we will not go into that.

Now we come to the [diode] this is there to keep the Water capacitor (Stainless steel plates/tubes) charged, it dose not let the high voltage fields wash out of the capacitor, but lets the voltage build up charge slowly.

Ok,

Now we come to the inductor (choke), this is a very important part of the circuit. When a pulse hits the inductor, the inductor generates an electromagnetic field. This then waits for the second pulse. When the second pulse hits the choke, the choke then lets out the first pulse witch goes to the water capacitor and gets stored in there and gets multiplied on it self each time.

Then it washes back out to the inductor, but not past because the High voltage diode dose not let it. So it now makes a bigger charge with each oscillation.

Then the momentum starts building with each pulse, the voltage is now resonating up, down, up, down.

This is responsible for the step charge effect, the voltage is rising.

This happens many times before the gate wave form stops the voltage from arching.

This is how the voltage gets to such high levels with 5Volts and 2Ampers; and this is the role of the inductor.

Ok,

Now let’s look at the water capacitor, this is made up of stainless steel plates/tubes, forming a capacitor. This is where the high voltage builds up charge, so that the tremendous voltage fields are made in the water between the plates in the capacitor.

That is how the LC resonance in the water fuel cell builds up high voltage fields.

The key is LC resonance, or tank circuit resonance.

LC resonance is a “choke/inductor” (copper wire wound around a ferrite core) witch is L, and a “capacitor” (the stainless steel plates/tubes) witch is C.

When you put a pulse through an LC circuit you will not get much of a reaction, but if you slowly tune, or do some hard math, you can find the resonant frequency depending on the values of the components.

The right frequency will resonate with the capacitor and the inductor, but you need to find resonance.

Good,

Now let’s look at what is actually happening to the water molecule.

The conventional electrolysis method uses amperage. Lots of it, and the energy used is not recovered after the Hydrogen and the oxygen recombine.

Now that we are using high voltage fields and very little amperage we don’t use much wattage but get lots of hydrogen.

Let’s take the normal water molecule; it has two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom.

Now the problem with breaking apart the water molecule is the covalent bond of the water molecule, this is the electrons that hold it together. But now that we are using high voltage fields we can “strip” of the electrons, leaving the hydrogen and oxygen free to rise to the top as a gas mixture.

We have now broken the water molecule with high voltage fields by affecting the electrons only.

Imagine the water molecule is held together by a lock witch is the electron. The conventional electrolysis process is like trying to smash apart the lock; it takes so much energy to do that.

But what we are now doing is unlocking the covalent bond of the water molecule using voltage, “plucking” or “extracting” the electrons. This uses much less electricity, and is more efficient.

It also dose not break the laws of thermodynamics.
During the process of stripping the electrons, the water molecule looses its electrons, the hydrogen and oxygen then goes into the piston in an engine. It needs to use its other electrons to reform that covalent bond,

But if you try and re-use that water coming out of the exhaust, it won’t disassociate, you can’t.

Before that water can be reused, is needs to go up into the atmosphere and join the clouds, get re-energized by the sun and fall back to earth, it acts like a solar panel, to get that covalent bonding electron.

The second you start using electricity to make photons to “re energize” the “stripped” water molecules is the second you loose the net energy gain.

All energy comes from our sun.

Thank you!
« Последна редакция: Април 03, 2011, 11:56:08 pm от altium »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #2 -: Декември 26, 2007, 11:30:16 am »
Пак от същия линк- малко критика.

Farrah Day

Цитат
Look guys I don't want to put a dampener on things here, but I do feel that I should mention that a lot of the theory stated in Pulsed's post is quite inaccurate.

I mention this as not only will it be very misleading to any newbie trying to get his or her head around the electronics or researching the subject, but surely it is quite irresponsible to talk as if you are well versed in the subject, when clearly you're not.

If anyone wants to know how the charging resonant cct really works, then the Richie Burnett site that was given above somewhere details it's function and explains it very well. However, bear in mind we are not using it to pulse a tesla coil as is Richie Burnett, so it will only partially relate to wfc's. For example, our wfc becomes the tank capacitor, and our pulsing is effectively equivalent to the spark gap.

Also, with this cct, the last thing we want is to hit the resonant frequency of the inductor and our wfc. At the resonant frequency, a series LC circuit provides next to no resistance to current flow as the reactances of inductor and capacitor are 180 degrees out of phase and hence cancel each other out. What this means is the only thing that limits the current is the resistance of the wire making up the inductor. You get very high current flowing through the cct and no voltage - exactly the opposite of what you want.

I don't think you'll find that the transformer is 'an unnecessary luxury'. This will step up the voltage from the source to provide a decent potential across the wfc. Without it your looking at just 10 volts across the wfc from a 5 volt supply.

Pulsed's post does illustrate a lack of understanding of basic electronic principles, which if accepted unquestioned by those not in-the-know, will be very detrimental to further education and progress.

There is also a lot of nonsense about 'stripping the electrons' from the water molecules and allowing the gases to rise up... if only it were that simple. This is all conjecture and actually makes no sense. It really does not work (cannot) work like that. I daresay, rather annoyingly Pulsed will find there are a few laws of physics and rules of science that need to be observed!

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Ванты взгляда, котор я не хочу одеть в dampener вещи здесь, но я чувствую что я должен упомянуть что множество теории заявленной в пульсированном столбе довольно неточно. Я упоминаю это как not only воля, котор он очень обманчив к любому newbie пытаясь получить his or her головку вокруг электроники или исследуя вопрос, но уверенно он довольно несознательн для того чтобы поговорить если вы наилучшим образом versed в вопросе, когда ясно вы не. Если любое хочет суметь, то как поручая резонирующий cct реально работает, тогда место Richie Burnett которое далось над где-то деталями оно будет функцией и объясняет его very well. Однако, bear in mind мы не используйте его для того чтобы пульсировать катушка tesla как будет Richie Burnett, поэтому оно только частично отнесет к wfc's. Например, наше wfc будет конденсатором бака, и нашим пульсировать будет эффективно эквивалент к зазору искры. Также, с этим cct, последняя вещь, котор мы хотим должна ударить резонирующую частоту индуктора и нашего wfc. На резонирующей частоте, цепь lc серии обеспечивает рядом с никаким сопротивлением к в настоящее время подаче по мере того как reactances индуктора и конденсатора 180 градусов из участка и следовательно отменяют вне. Эти середины единственной вещью ограничивается течение будет сопротивление провода делая вверх по индуктору. Вы не получаете очень высокий в настоящее время пропускать через cct и никакое напряжение тока - точно противоположность вы хотите. Я не думаю вы найдет что трансформатор будет ' ненужной роскошью '. Это step up напряжение тока от источника для того чтобы обеспечить пристойный потенциал через wfc. Без его ваши смотря как раз 10 вольтов через wfc от поставкы 5 вольтов. Пульсированный столб иллюстрирует недопонимание основных электронных принципов, которые если принято unquestioned теми для того чтобыne знать, будут очень вредны к более дальнеишему образованию и развят. Будет также множество вздора о ' прокладке электронов от молекул воды и позволять газы поднять вверх по... если только она была тем просто. Это будет вся конектура и фактическ не делает никакое чувство. Оно реально не работает (не смогите) работа как то. Ii1 daresay, довольно annoyingly после того как я пульсировано найдет там будет немного законов физики и правилами науки которые наблюдаться!

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #3 -: Декември 26, 2007, 11:31:37 am »
Схемата на Стенли Маер. С главно "С".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Water_fuel_cell_circuit.png



Дясната част на трансформатора както се вижда, е резонираща LC група, в която капацитета са самите плочи на електролизера и има външни дросели, единият от които е променлив за донастройка на собствената резонираща честота.
Между плочите се прилага основно напрежение, а не ток.
« Последна редакция: Април 03, 2011, 12:25:14 am от altium »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #4 -: Декември 26, 2007, 11:38:47 am »
Кратко обобщение от мен

От разгледаните до тук схеми и репликации (доколкото може да се твърди, че има успешни репликации) има някои съществени различия.

Първо- в оригиналните схеми на Стенли Майер се ползва една честота. Това е честотата на постигнатия резонанс. Т.е. тя може да се променя с времето, но не и циклично. Докато в репликациите на Боб Бойс и Лаутон се ползват 2 или 3 таймера, в които се подават импулси с честота 10, 20 и 40 кХз, то при Стенли Майер няма такива екстри, а се търси резонансната честота.

Тя варира от 0 до 10 кХз и над нея. Според зависимост от много фактори, според които температура на водата, частици (ppm - parts per million), примеси и т.н.

Второто важно различие- при клетката на Стан Мейер се използва пулс с повишаващо се напрежение (поне аз така го разбирам). Ето и схемата с пояснение как точно се получава:

« Последна редакция: Април 03, 2011, 11:58:41 pm от altium »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #5 -: Декември 26, 2007, 11:46:52 am »
Кратко обяснение на процеса.

Конвенционалната електролиза използва постоянен ток. Отдаването на електрони между катода и анода е постоянно, използва се много ток (ампераж) за да се добие водород и кислород.


Стенли Майер смята, че има друг начин за разделянето на водорода и кислорода- не чрез отдаване на електрони. Прието е, че водната молекула е податлива на електричното поле. Т.е.- пуска се някакво напрежение, което създава условията за разрушаване на връзката. За да има обаче ефект от него- то е пулсиращо.
Т.е. чрез пулса веднъж се създава електричното поле, втори път се намаля потока на електрони (т.е. редуцираме ампеража).







« Последна редакция: Януари 16, 2011, 08:20:56 pm от mzk »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #6 -: Декември 26, 2007, 05:29:22 pm »
Цитат
But wanted to comment on something else: I am referring to the calculations in
this posting (page 8 of this thread): ravzz wrote: ...interesting finding:

The findings are based on this youtube video from Dave Lawton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miwbvsya3Ek , WATCH IT! ... Just doing a simple
calculation a tube in plain fresh water ...

Here my own calculations based on the concept mentioned in this posting:

Speed of sound (v) of pure water at room temperature (20° C) is ca. 1482 m/s
See: http://www.npl.co.uk/acoustics/techguides/soundpurewater/lubbers.html
Consequently the calculation gives the following "basic resonance frequency" for
a tube-in-tube cell: f=v/2L where v is the speed of sound ind water and L is the
length of the tubes in meters.

For tubes of 5" (12.7cm) length, resonance frequency (f) would be ca.
f=1482/2*0.127= 5834 Hz Please note again the coincidence with the 5714 Hz in
the video.

OK. Here some more sample calculations: For tubes of 6" (15.24cm) length:
f=1482/2*0.1524= 4862 Hz For tubes of 10" (25.4cm) length: f=1482/2*0.254= 2917
Hz For tubes of 12" (30.5cm) length: f=1482/2*0.305= 2430 Hz For tubes of 15"
(38.1cm) length: f=1482/2*0.381= 1945 Hz

Please note that water temperature is a critical factor as the speed of sound in
water changes noticeably, when the temp changes. With rising temperature of
water, the resonance frequency also rises.

And: When I first read about this concept of calculation, I was wondering what
sense it made to use the speed of sound in WATER to calculate the length of
STEEL tubes. I think I have come to realize why that makes sense: Because in
reality the calculation does not calculate the length of the steel tubes, but
actually the length/height of the water ring that is located between the inner
and outer tube (which accidentally has the same height as the two tubes).

And why is the speed of sound important, anyway? Because we want to create
standing sound waves in the water, i.e. areas of different pressure ....

Now what would happen if the tube diameter i.e. the circumference of the water
ring/column would be chosen to be "harmonically in tune" with the height of the
column?

Whoever experiments with resonance in tube-in-tube cells, please feel free to
post your tube lengths and the pulsing freq that works best for you, so that the
mentioned concept and calculations can be verified or refuted.

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #7 -: Декември 28, 2007, 11:59:06 am »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #8 -: Декември 28, 2007, 12:03:13 pm »
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=521&start=0

Цитат
Ok guys, through my simple experiments I have confirmed that the white powdery coating formation is aided by taking the tubes out of the water to let dry when doing the water change. Doing so will allow for the oxidation to take place at the electrodes. I place my tubes in front of a fan to dry and I change my water every 20-30 mins. I'm putting 12v@ 1A slow pulsed and i'm using well water, since it has more minerals in it. Although tap water is good also. Do not use distilled water while conditioning or you'll spend a whole lot more time to achieve the coating. It is safe to use detergent on the tubes to remove the brown gunk. but don't scrub the inner ones. I just put dish washing soap and rinse it with flowing water through to flush out the gunk from in between the gap. Whatever the coating is, it does help with production, beacuse the bubbles do not stick to the electrode anymore.


Цитат
Duranza, I found this post by searching google - I could not find it via the WFC site itself.

Your conditioning of cells interests me as I believe that the conditioning, particularly the oxide layer on the anode, is what actually creates a water capacitor. I mentioned this on another site, and like you felt this was an important consideration. However, my observation again like yours, was simply dismissed or ignored by everyone.

As normal tap water between the electrodes simply gives us a non-linear resistor, I had always had my problems with Meyer's water capacitor as such. However, if the anode becomes oxidised (most oxides being very good insulators), we have a genuine dielectric and we can forget about the water being the dielectric. The water then simply becomes a very effective extension of the cathode. We have then a 'wet electrolytic capacitor'. Now I know some people try to discourage this oxide layer on the anode, but I think it may be a crucial part of the cell, particularly bin terms of pulsed voltages.

If I'm right, then a properly conditioned wfc should strongly oppose the flow of current if a steady (unpulsed) dc voltage is applied to the cell. Electrolytic capacitors do have a high leakage current, but it should still present a much higher resitance than uncondition electrodes. I'm not quite up and running yet, so can't test this, but thought you might be in a position to do so.

As I say, no one showed any interest in this on another forum, but like you I think this is important.

Would like to discuss this more if you're still looking in.

Farrah Day


Цитат
I've recently posted this on another forum:

"I know there has been little or no interest in what I said about the oxide layer on the SS actually being the dielectric, but something I read on another forum by 'Ravi', has made me even more convinced by this now. He stated that it took months for his cells to be conditioned and working at the efficiency they were currently working at.

This is what I think is happening:

Stainless steel is 'stainless' because of the chromuim in it. The chromium oxidises when it comes into contact with oxygen. This creates an invisible, extremely thin film of chromuim oxide (Cr2O3). This film of chromium oxide self-heals like galvanised steel, but unlike galvanised steel the layer is only atoms thick. Chromium oxide is an insulator, with a dielectric constant of around 13, but at literally only atoms thick, simply touching it will break through this insulation.

Now, the interesting thing about stainless steel is that it will actually corrode badly in an OXYGEN FREE environment. It is the continual presence of oxygen in the air or water that allows the oxide film to self-heal and maintain itself. Now, think about what we do when we use ss as an anode. We immerse the ss in water containing free oxygen which maintains its protective oxide layer, but then we attract lots of pure oxygen directly onto it's surface. I believe we are enhancing the oxide layer; thickening the oxide layer and so creating a more formidable dielectric layer. Hence we have a better water capacitor that will hold a charge for longer"

Water as the dielectric was always a bug-bear of mine, as I never really thought this possible, or likely... put simply tap water conducts. Then the importance of conditioning of the plates came to light more and more, and with it realisation that the conditioning was actually forming an insulating dielectric layer. Water is not the dielectric.

We have the capacitor now, with water being simply an all encompassing extension of the cathode. Next question then is how exactly are we getting the water molecule to split and release its component gases?

If the oxide layer is an insulator, forming the capacitor, then it should opposed DC. AC, on the other, hand would pass to a lesser or greater degree, with the capacitor allowing far more current flow at higher frequencies than lower frequencies.

The thing is, we are not providing an AC signal to our capacitor (which is polarised), but rather DC pulses. The capacitor will charge from the DC pulses, so there will be a standing voltage across the dielectric, and as this leaks the pulses will keep topping the capacitor up.

However, this leakage current, will prevent the voltage reaching the 'stress' level needed to physically pull the water apart, unless we can top it up faster than it can leak.

I think that the small current flowing through the wfc is simply the natural dc leakage current of a 'wet electrolytic capacitor', and will likely happen all the time because of the pd across the dielectric. No amount of so-called 'amp consuming devices' before the wfc will stop this. Only improving the dielectric layer will reduce this.

However, getting the right LC combination and pulse frequency will be critical in restricting current flow through the circuit.

Then, something I read here 'clicked'. http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Water_Fuel_Cell

If and when a DC pulse attains a certain level of potential difference across the oxide layer dielectric, then this dielectric layer (not the water) briefly, but catastrophically breaks down. The highly charged plates effectively short out across this dielectric layer. However, the current restricting LC combination won't allow this to happen fast enough. The electrical charges on the plates are unable to form an equilibrium and hence balance the plate charges from within the electrical circuit. Instead, other options are looked for - this being the water. The water is instantly ionised as the water is effectively pulled apart, the ions attempting to meet or, at least reduce the massive charge deficit on the plates.

When this happens, current through the circuit is not affected much, but a lot is happening to the water within the wfc.

That at least is how I'm rationalising the workings of a wfc ... so far.

Oh one thing about the water you use. Bear in mind that if you use de-ionised water in a wfc and don't use it regularly, the ss plates will corrode, as the protecting oxide layer needs oxygen to be maintained. As it is, the cathode plate might corrode even in use with or without de-ionised water due to lack of oxygen. This I think is what we are seeing on Duranza’s cathodes.

Farrah Day


Цитат
Firstly, the main frequency pulse. We will want this to be quite high, as high frequency through an inductor will create a high resistance to current flow - hence the inductor acts as our natural current limiter. Note: I'm dismissing all ideas of resistive wire to restrict current, as this would simply waste power, whereas an inductor will store energy and release it back into the cct with only a very small loss of power.

The modulation of the high frequency pulses. Now I've heard mention that this is used to control the gas output in order to accelerate/decelerate a vehicle. However, I don't think we have that to worry about yet. So I believe that more likely the modulation of the high frequency by a lower frequency is what provides the 'off' time that allows the dielectric to reform.

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #9 -: Декември 28, 2007, 07:44:44 pm »
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=454

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The schematic i made in the past was a working wreck, it was only working because it was screwed. now, enough about that deformed circuit, lets get on with the good stuff and put that in the past!


A few things you should know before you continue your water fuel cell adventure.

1. A coil of any kind in parallel or series with a ("none BI polar") capacitor seperated by a diode in any direction CAN NOT AND WILL NOT RESONATE!

2. A ("None BI Polar") Capacitor Can Not resonate with a inductor in any kind of Pulsed DC OR AC. ("Only bipolar ones can do this")!

3. The Frequency Is COMPLETE BULLSHIT let me say that again, it is COMPLET BULLSHIT there is no Frequency, Stanley did this to confuse you. With Good meaning! you would have did the same.

4. The Patent "stanley meyers", which shows the 5 spikes seperated by a delay where the pulses start at a lower voltage, and workes its way up to the 5 Spike then comes to a delay was simply to confuse you!!! it's not true.

Faqs, There is a Pulse needed at a desired Frequency, but it's nothing like you think, its not what you think. i hardly refer to it as a frequency, its much slower ("has nothing to do with the resonate or water molecule".

The unite works of of COLD ELECTRICITY google that with inventors.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOHhhhhh

I can clearly see why stanley used a alternator now. His transformer that stated 200 wraps of 22 gauge wire with 600 turns of 36 awg wire was complete bull, it was used to throw you for a loop just like the frequency, stanley "is" a smart man, i admire him for that, and i respect him!

CHOKES
They're very very important, the wrong chokes will get really hot really fast, i just figured all this out, so you guys need to help me on them.

More to come if i don't get bashed, But remember, Forget the dave lawton circuit, its not needed, and is a complete wast of time if you're trying to use it with the wfc, drop it, it dont work. There is no frequency.

Think to yourself, ask yourself, back then if you was stanley meyers, would you patent the complete truth?? would you not do as he did???

today is a differnt day, there is no patent, now its public and money is not an object, the truth shall come out now!

The construction of my results are ready for you to experience, what ya waiting on? you guys with me or not??



Цитат
Great work! Yes, that`s water split by voltage potential-
very small, white gasbubbles, highly implosive and energetic Smile

I am not new here, been reading here quite a wile,
but now i would like to share what i think about the VIC.

What hydrocars says is what i also think now, it`s so easy.
I had been "blindet" also for a wile, but while reading the newest results here last week, it really hit me:-)

Maby Stanly Meyer was forced to complicate it,
because it`s so easy and so wouldn`t get his patent granted.
Who knows...

Well for me this works exactly like a ozon generator, only with water.
The high voltage potential creates a corona/ cold plasma field with almost no current and transmutes the oxygen in
the air to ozone.

Remove the insolator between the plates or bring them to close together, the HV arcs over- currentflow.
The corona potetialfield collapses instantly!

Same when using tapwater or water with minerals (conductive) with the VIC, then you get current electrolysis, which
isn`t that efficient and hot chokes...

You only need to hit the selfresonace of the choke (which all coils with airgapped ferrit-/metalcore should have),
that`s why i would and will put all windings on the same core (Step up & Charging choke) Smile

At that selfresonance the choke will generate the strongest corona/cold plasma field/voltage potential in the water
between the tubes and transmutate/split it into it`s elements hydrogen and oxygen.
So i think Stan Meyer ment this coil selfresonance (Which typicaly lays in the audiofreq. range) and the simplest
pulsing circuit should do the job!

Maby there could be a visible blue-purpleish plasma glow between the tubes in a quite dark room.

So because Currentflow will kill this plasmafield emidialy, i only will use noncoductive demineralised water for the VIC.

Цитат

I love relating the Tesla coil to the water fuel cell. I think there is no arch in the water between the positive and negative electrodes that would be shorting and would affect the water molecule. But this process applies to the browns gas generator, the one with carbon rods and the under water arch
Rather the high voltage affects the water molecules because of the high voltage field. In a Tesla coil there are arches and sparks but there are very high voltage fields to. If you can get the voltage field under water in the plates, and put the plates as close together without arching, you will get a pretty intense voltage field. No amps would be consumed just like a magnetic field.

The way to generate a high voltage field would be through LC resonance, this means high voltage so be careful. The resonance builds up the voltage field in the water capacitor, and, just before a dielectric failure (arching) occurs the high voltage pulses stop, only to start again and so the process goes, no amp flow no electricity being used. Sure some amperage will be used, nothing is perfect, but if we can get it as low as possible low wattage will be used.

100000v x 0.001 amps = 11 watts, easily doable by the alternator.

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #10 -: Декември 28, 2007, 08:31:41 pm »

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Here in this picture, you can see 1 Power inverter, 600 watts, one Transformer from radio shack, it is 120v AC to 25 volts AC Step Down, You will also see the 470uf THE CAP MUST BE 200v no smaller.

2 diodes rated at 1000 volts, and you will see CHOKES in tape i made, they should be bigger. after you experiment with the schematic you will see what the chokes do, and why you need them. Those of you without ammeter's you will need an ammeter that will read atleast 10 amps ac and dc, you need to get you one, if you don't have one we will do our best at describing whats going on, i know what its like not to have an ammeter, it sucks.

« Последна редакция: Януари 16, 2011, 08:22:01 pm от mzk »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #11 -: Декември 28, 2007, 10:30:17 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=raviwfc

Честотно разлагане на водата, с резонансна честота - бурна електролиза с 0.51 A ток. Без коментар.

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #12 -: Януари 02, 2008, 02:37:48 pm »
В общия случай след много теории и спорове стигнах до следния извод.

Електролизата на Стан Майер се свежда предимно до използването на индуктори (дросели/чоук-ове (choke)). Импулсното подаване на електричество към първичната намотка се прави с цел да се нацели резонанса именно на тези индуктори последователно на водната клетка (която е капацитет).
Ако дроселите не са правилно направени клетката няма да работи правилно. Амперажът трябва да е забранен за да доведем волтажът до максимум, защото ако не е забранен клетката действа повече като малък резистор отколкото като капацитет.
Трябва да се обърне внимание на бифилярните намотки...


Водната клетка- която при Стан Майер е с 2 тръби (въпреки че според мен плочи са по- удачен вариант) всъщност се явява капацитет във веригата. Ниският ток реално идва от двата дросела. Напрежението се увеличава когато индукторите заедно с капацитета на келтката влезнат в резонанс. Във форума waterfuelcell на проектите на потребителя Dogs е демонстрирана клетка в резонанс с 1,7 милиона волта напрежение.

Импулсът се променя след като мине през вторичната намотка, ако не се лъжа се удвоява или както се правят сметките там. Освен това се и изостря. Японски учени са достигнали до извода че острият пулс върши добра работа, но опитите ще покажат (по- късно ще пусна линк към материала).

Въпреки огромния волтаж постигнат от Dogs отделянето на мехурчета не е било шокиращо. При всички положения има други фактори, които помагат за отделянето на водорода- спори се за т.нар. акустичен резонанс- при който се смята формата на тръбата и приблизителната честота. Лично според мен това единствено би трябвало да подобри отделянето на мехурчетата.

Рави- човекът който е направил репликация на Дейвид Лаутон (който пък е направил клетката на ан Майер) казва, че е имало период от няколко месеца, за които тръбите на клетката му са се кондиционирали и е започнало по- лесно отделяне на мехурчета.

Тези хора пишат да не се пипа покритието на тръбите.

Друг потребител от waterfuelcell форума казва, че се образува бял слой по тях, който помага за отделянето на мехурчетата.

При всички положения дори в последната схема на D14 файла се използват индуктори - bifilar choke- бифилярни индуктори

Има някакъв чалъм за смятане на (индукторите). Има кратко обяснение пак в waterfuelcell форума.

Пускам го тук:

Цитат
First off it's nice to see so many people taking interest in the wfc now, and actually doing experiments. Smile

Sorry for not posting as often as I use to, but it is because of a good reason. I have been concentrating solely on the wfc lately and have realized a lot of very important details about the wfc.

Sorry if I mislead anyone to think that I have fully functioning and tuned wfc, but I do not. I am close, dead close, but still not quite there, yet.


Ok, first I am going to start off saying that Meyer's used some energy. Meyer's states in the tech brief that he uses 12v@3.3a=40w on the primary side of the step up transformer, and at the wfc he is using 40kv@1ma=40w, so TOTAL POWER USED IS 40 WATTS. You can also watch Meyer's New Zealand lecture to verify this, witch Murray has so kindly embedded in the top right of his web site Smile , witch I think is awesome, because it is Meyer's most informative lectures and gives the most clues on the VIC construction.

Now back to the original topic of my post:

The chokes are what I have been solely working on and still working on. The formulas that Meyer's give in his tech brief are so complex that I still have not completely figured them all out, but I have a good understanding of most of them especially after thoroughly reading the tech brief over and over again.

I have come to the conclusion that the chokes are the only part of the VIC that restrict the amps and keep the amperage at a minimum even when out of resonance. When you get the VIC in to resonance simply by tuning the frequency(no need to tune the chokes or cell) the voltage will over come the resistance of the VIC(meaning voltage will go to it's maximum).

I believe this is the most important thing to understand and remember about the chokes; Meyer's states in the New Zealand Lecture and the tech brief that the chokes are restricting the amperage using MAGNETIC FIELD, and any amperage that the magnetic field does not restrict the RESISTANCE will!

So now we know that magnetic field is the big player in stopping the amps and resistance is the next biggest player in stopping the amps. "Now you have to learn to ask the right questions"(one of my favorite quotes from Stan) So, how do we create the strongest magnetic field? This is were the bifilar coil comes in and your knowledge of inductors. I will get in to this in a little bit... So, how do you increase the resistance of the bifilar chokes and still comply to KISS and the law of economics? Well, since Meyer's clearly states that stainless steel wire is NOT necessary to increase the resistance you just have to use smaller gauge copper wire(smaller gauge means higher frequency) or use other wire that has resistive and inductive properties(Now if that doesn't comply with KISS or the law of economics then I don't know what does.).

Ok, now that you know my understanding of the chokes I will go in to more detail about its physical construction. I am not going to give you exact measurements because I have none yet. I am still working on this myself, but I have done some experiments to know that this is correct.

First I will explain the bifilar coil. The bifilar coil is wired to the wfc so that the coils will be electronically and magnetically oriented in the same direction(Meyer's states this all over the tech brief). Meyer's has a diagram with the chokes orientation(the dots at the end of the cokes north pole) on figure 7-1 on page 155 of the tech brief. I also included a diagram of how you connect the wfc to the chokes called "NEOGEN BIFILAR with wfc(this does not show the right physical construction of the chokes just how to connect it)".

Now I will give you guys an idea on how much resistance and what size wire should be used for the chokes. Meyer's states that 11,600 ohms per choke is typically enough resistance to inhibit the amps. Smaller wire will increase resistance, but means higher frequencies. You can also use other insulated wire(not just SS) that has more resistance than copper, but has the same inductive properties(bigger wire means lower frequencies).

Last but not least the physical construction of the chokes. I am just going to point you guys to a couple of figures in the tech brief and just give you a little explanation on them.

First look at figure 10-4 on page 200. Figure 10-4 is actually two pictures in one. The skinny black wires are the schematic for the chokes(ignore all label on this schematic for how to connect the choke because it is very unclear and almost misleading). The Picture behind the schematic where the coils are cut in half so you can see the cross section of each section is how the chokes would be physically wound. Keep in mind it is still just a diagram so it is not the actual size of the wire nor the only amount of wraps you can put on each section.

Now look at figure 6-1 on page 135. I know this diagram can be really confusing, because you have to look through all of the magnetic field lines that Meyer's drew. This diagram is also when Meyer's was starting to refine his VIC to be compact and to cause instant explosive energy from the water(his spark plug injector), but it is not necessary to include the step up transformer for just making enormous amounts of gas, and still possibly causing instant explosion of water. This will give you a good idea about how to construct bobbin for the chokes. Notice how close the section are to each other.

Ok, last comment. Because the chokes are electronically and magnetically oriented in the same direction this means that the positive and negative will be aiding each other and causing more voltage. Meyer's has a good diagram figure 10-5 on page 200 of what the voltage is doing at the end of the chokes.

IF THE CHOKES ARE NOT BUILT RIGHT THE WFC WILL NOT WORK RIGHT AT ALL. AMPS HAVE TO BE INHIBITED TO GET THE VOLTAGE TO GO TO MAXIMUM, BECAUSE THE WFC ACTS LIKE A SMALL RESISTOR MORE THAN A CAPACITOR!

The VIC allows the water to become a component part of the circuit as resistance and capacitance.

Hope this helps you guys understand what I have learned. Good Luck to ALL!!!! Wink

Ето картинките към горния материал:

135-6-1

155-7-1

200-10-4

200-10-5



Ето и линк към темата:
http://www.waterfuelcell.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=551

Освен това съществува мнението, че високия волтаж образува плазмено поле между катода и анода, което е причината за отделянето на водород и кислород. В клетката на Рави също се наблюдава някаква светлина в дъното на тръбите (доколкото разбрах).

Високия волтаж се пуска импулсно веднъж за да се застави веригата в резонанс.

Има още един-втори пулс (гейт пулс)- който пуска първия. Доколкото разбирам това се прави с цел да се прекъсне електричеството точно в момента преди да пробие през водата (която се пада диелектри)- за да няма искра и съответно загуба на ток. Целия процес е цикличен и е въпрос на нацелване.

За втория пулс- схемата е следната (с двата 555 таймера- последната от Д14 файла).

Важно е да се отбележи, че тук са добавени индукторите, но няма първична и вторична намотка за волтажа, каквато във VIC схемата на Стан Майер има- малко по- горе.
« Последна редакция: Януари 16, 2011, 08:24:45 pm от mzk »

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #13 -: Януари 03, 2008, 10:25:27 am »
:)
Моя скромен интелект разбира метода на Стенли малко по-различно.
Първия и втория импулс ориентира молекулите на водата по посока на електродите и ги превръща в диполи.
Третия - вдига електроните на по високо енергийно ниво(по спомени от уроците по химия-по ниското енергийно ниво прави електроните химически неактивни особено ако са и чифт в последния електронен слой).
Четвъртия и петия разкъсват връзките между атомите и привлича отделните елементи О и Н към отделните електроди.
Следва пауза която дава възможност атомите да рекомбинират в молекулен водород и кислород.
:)
Всеки следващ импулс не върши работа, защото атомния водород и кислород стават основни токоносители( йони) и само провеждат ток.
Все едно имаме пробив в диелектрика на кондензатор( какъвто представляват плочите на електролизера).
:)
така да се каже хабиме ток за подгряване на водата и това докато атомите изплуват над електродите, и там рекомбинират в молекули.
 :wink:
А честотата трябва да е резонанса за по-малка консумация на енергия.
Не е зле да си препрочетем химията и физиката за 7-8 клас , за да си обясним доста от "чудесата" на свръх ефективната електролиза.

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Re: Схеми на Stanley Mayer
« Отговор #14 -: Януари 13, 2008, 10:34:02 am »
Направих D 14 получих бялата патина по тръбите но газопроизводството
не е фрапиращо.В момента смятам напреженов резонанс капацитета е много малък.Честотата която вади втория таймлер има ли някои на идея
в какъв порядък е?Някой тук спомена за калкулираща програма L иC!
Според мен получения капацитет не е линеен и от там се създават проблеми.Изпозвам само дейонизирана вода и резултата е много по добър
Мисля че трябва да се ползва висока честота при 2.5GHz относителната
диелектрична проницаемост от 80 става77.